Posts by moggy lover

15

Who has the new publication: What does the bible REALLY teach?? Need Scan

by Lady Liberty in

can anyone out there scan from the first chapter of what does the bible really teach book?

it is a newer publication.

aparently on another thread, chapter one explains why questions are good to ask of your religion.

moggy lover

I went to the reexamine site and could'nt find the book. It's probably not available yet.

Cheers

10

Memorial

by praiseband in

i am not a jehovah's witness, but my daughter-in-law is.

i attended the memorial last night.

the speaker quite clearly stated that judas did not partake of the bread and wine at the lord's supper,that he had already left, but even the nwt shows that not to be true.

moggy lover

Hi, Praiseband, and welcome to the Forum

When I was officiating as an "elder" in the WTS, I had this growing perception that they were distorting the NT Greek record with their singular renderings, including the item you brought up, ie the use of "excercising faith" for the Greek verb "Pisteuo". Several years after leaving the WTS, having done a night course in NT Greek at a Bible College [something I would recommend to anyone] I met a JW zealot and confronted him with that same question. Why "EF" at Jo 3:16?

His answer[s] led me to believe that in a superficial way, the WTS had adressed the issue, at least to the basic satisfaction of their followers.

1 His first answer, [after consulting carefully concealed notes] was that the verb "Pisteuo" CAN mean "believe", however at Jo 3:16, it occurs in a particular grammatical form. This he said, is what "careful" translators should look out for, and thankfully, the NWT has done just that. It was a "Present Active Nominative Participle" Impressive is'nt it? Sounds schorlarly. It was this form of the verb that made it imperitive to "translate" it as "EF"

Problem was that the SAME form occurs in the preceeding verse!! [Jo 3:15] I asked him to read his New World "Translation" It had "Believe" !!

2 His partner [probably his wife] no doubt after consulting some more notes, which because I was speaking to the man, I did'nt see, added:" Ah but you see at Jo 3:16 the PANP is followed by the preposition "eis" that is why it is translated as "EF" at Jo 3:16, something that Jo 3:15 does not have." Well there is another problem, because at Ac 13:39, and 1Jo 5:1, 5, the same thing occurs, even their own interlinear shows this. I asked them to please read these texts. The texts clearly say "Believe"

I further pointed out that if such was the case, then why did their own "Kingdom Interlinear" have "believe" at Jo 3:16, whereas the actual translation had modified this to "EF"

It is obvious then that the JWs must confront the fact that the NWT is a deliberately constructed "version" of the Bible so as to make it say exactly what they want it to say. They trumpet the subject of "consistency" only in those circumstances that serve their own purpose.

Incidently, a JW may point out the Liddell and Scott allow for "Put faith in" as a translation for "pisteuo". But even this is nothing connected to "Excercising" faith

Cheers

21

Resurrection of dead loved ones......

by Sunnygal41 in

jw
friends

this belief and it's explanation used to make me scratch my head.

if there is no part of you that survives after death, because of the no soul teaching, and jw's are taught that if faithful, we will be resurrected by god, the explanation goes that we exist in god's "memory" and there is a scripture used to support that.........someone help me out here cuz i don't have a bible available right now........... when this was first explained to me, i got this mental image of god as a giant computer.......not kidding........filled with all the specific dna info.

on everyone who is a faithful worshipper.

moggy lover

I'm not entirely sure that this is what you are looking for, SG41, but one of the verses that the WTS uses is found in Ps 25:7, where David pleads with Yahweh to "remember" him. According to the WTS, then, David was in God's "Memory" complete with his entire DNA record

Of course, David no longer exists in any concept of reality, according to the WTS. So what God has to do is RE-create another being who has exactly the same DNA bank that the original David had and God calls this being the original "David" The sad thing is that the JWs seem to forget that David pleaded with Yahweh to :"Remember ME" The one-and-only original. The very person who was praying to Yahweh expected to be remembered

So, we can safely say that the WTS does not believe in the Resurrection, what they believe in is Divine Cloning, and they call that "resurrection"

27

Are the 144000 Virgins or not?

by SickofLies in

rev 14:3 and they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders.

these were redeemed by jesus from among men, the first fruits to god and to the lamb.

these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they who are following the lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men -- a first-fruit to god and to the lamb -- (ylt).

moggy lover

Some evangelicals look at it this way:

1 Yup, just as the WTS says there are TWO groups mentioned in this chapter. One group does have a finite number. [ie 144k] Rev 7:1-8

2 The other group is indefinite in numbers.[9-17]

BUT:

That is not the only difference: there is obviously an ETHNIC difference as well! [Jew-Gentile] If one group is of the "nations" ie Gentiles, the other group can't ALSO be of the same ethnicity

What the WTS has not seen is the Time Factor. These two groups appear only "After these things" are mentioned in vs 1. It is only After certain things, mentioned in chap 6, ie the start of the Great Tribulation, that Rev begins to talk about these two groups. So, whoever they are, since the Great Tribulation has'nt started yet, they ARE NOT AROUND TODAY!!

In the latest "Revelation" book, the WTS prattles on about the 144k and who the hell they are, but significantly, ignores the opening words of the Chapter.[pg 113]

I pointed this out to a WT zealot. His answer? You have to remember that Rev is'nt strictly chronological. "After these things" can mean "way before these things, like in the 1st cent" Yeah right. Like Rev 7 come before chap 6, and chap 21 comes before chap 1 With that kind of logic you can prove the earth is flat.

All can say is that at some future time, when me and the rest of us good guys will be heaven bound, when the Great Tribulation begins, somehow 144k Jewish virginal Billy Grahams will preach the "Kingdom message" and hopefully, if you can tear yourself away from erm.. ahem.."defiling yourselves" you will become part of a great crowd of Tribulation survivors. See you then maybe?

Cheers

26

New WT publication encourages "questioning"

by Smiles in

many here have been reproved or disfellowshiped for asking questions about the bible and the jw interpretation of it.. after encouraging the asking of questions, one of the newest wt publications states: "others worry that asking questions could lead to shame or embarrassment.

and some decide that such questions are best left to religious leaders and teachers.

that quote is found in the first chapter of the new publication that all congregations will begin studying each week at their congregation book study.

moggy lover

The WTS position is that one can ASK questions, but one cannot QUESTION.

In other words, one can ask away, but the answers given MUST be accepted without question.

There used to be a maxim in the WTS in the mid 70s when I was in the ORG:"There are questions that can be asked but answers that cannot be questioned"

Even Ray Franz found that out to his cost

Cheers

33

WT 5/1/06 -Backing Away from 1914? - NO

by TheListener in

backing away from 1914?

i think not.. may 1, 2006 wt third study article on page 27, paragraph 2 and 3 state:.

"2. almost 30 years after that pentecost in 33 c.e., the apostle paul confirmed that christ had not yet taken full kingdom power, but he was "at the right hand of god, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.

moggy lover

Interesting post, TListener, I wonder if what R Franz suggested in his COC is being heeded to.

On pgs 217 - 219 [ie in my edition, which is the second printing 1985, pages may vary in other editions, but it is in the chap entitled "1975: Appropriate time for God to act"] he tells of an aborted WT article that was suggested to the GB and which was prepared by Klein, Schroeder, and Suiter. The essential point of the article was to split the significance of the 1914 date.

Hitherto the date was used to imply the fullfilment of two simultaneous events: 1 The start of Jesus's rule in heaven [the end of the Gentile Times] 2 The beginning if the "Last Generation" during whose lifetime the world as we know it would end.

This article argued for splitting this up. 1 The rule would be kept for 1914, [WW1, 607 BC and all that] but as for no 2: The generation need not be tied to this date. The article suggested 1957, evidently because with the launching of the Soviet "Sputnik" it ushered in the prophecy of Matt 24:29 telling of the "powers in the heavens being shaken"

I have a sneeky feeling that is what the GB may start to hint at. In the Nov 1995 WT, the WTS effectively removed the problem of the 1914 generation. But because of the fortunate start of WW1 in 1914, they will keep that date for an indefinite period.

Have the WTS misapplied Heb 10:12? I think so. "The right hand of God" signifies "Approval" not "Anticipation" Like the carnal-minded Jews of the 1st Cent, the WTS is expecting Christ to destroy fleshly and physical enemies, like the non-WT world. In fact the "enemies" that Christ is more concerened with are Sin, and the "Last Enemy" death.

He has at this time, and since His resurrection, "Total Power" [Matt 28:18] and has been ruling since being in heaven, but will rule till sin and death will be done away with.

Cheers

48

May 15 WT - Survival depends on loyal association with the organization

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

with the recent wt articles stressing how "new light" has appeared over the decades, this article is geared towards making sure individuals are active within the organization in order to ensure their survival.. this article is taken from e-watchman's discussion board, this is not my article.. .

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1019&st=0.

just got a hold of the new may 15, 2006 watchtower containing the study article, "are you prepared for survival?

moggy lover

Oh Crumbs!! Not again surely??

I remember this visiting overseer at a Cir Assy telling us that all prophecies that needed fullfiling were now fullfiled, and all that was needed was for jeeejoba to bring on the New World. In fact, said he breathlessly, the brothers were already preparing WT and Kingdom Ministry articles that would have relevance only in New World cicumstances !!!

And that was back in 1973!

Cheers

52

Lets give JH our love and support!!

by ButtLight in

jw
friends

he, and his family are going through a tough time right now.

he got a call that his dad has a tumor, and also found something in his liver, believed to be cancer.

i just wanted everyone to let him know we are all here for him and his family!.

moggy lover

As one who has fought cancer , still fighting it, as a matter of fact, all I can say is Hang in there!!! There is always hope.

Be Well

Cheers

78

PREACHING has STOPPED / ARMAGEDDON has BEGUN !!

by DannyHaszard in

received via email from a supporter,has anyone heard of this watchtower cult development?

{...i just wanted to let you know about some recent and alarming news in the wts.

my sister, who is not baptized yet, has been going to the meetings on a regular basis with my mom, who is full time pioneer.

moggy lover

Keeping in mind the WTS cultic interpretation of 1 Th 5:3 [Whenever it it is that they say "Peace and Security" then instant destruction will come......] I remember one year when the UN proclaimed a certain year [I think it was ' 86] to be the year of "Peace and Security"

This is no big deal because the UN often proclaims certain years to have certain themes: we've had the year"Of the Disabled", the year of "The Aged" etc. Anyway, this particular year, I [who had left about a year back] was bombarded by phone calls from my former associates almost hysterically telling me of the peril I was in. It was SO CLOSE!!! Special talks were scheduled here there and everywhere inviting all and sundry to listen.

In the herd mindset of the JWs all this was forgotten and discarded the very next year. In fact with the selective amnesia so characteristic of the JWs many who had indeed called me up on the phone the year before, maintained a total silence.

I think the tragic thing is that they were neither apologetic nor responsive, simply moved on as if nothing had happened.

Till the next hullabaloo

Cheers

13

Chart of Seventy Years for Babylon

by Lady Liberty in

i just made this chart for my brother-in-law using the bible as well as the book entitled assyrian & babylonian chronicles by a.k.

(nabonidus chronicle 7- bm35382).

25: 12 ( nabonidus chronicle: chronicle 7-bm 36304).

moggy lover

Hi, LL excellent post. I think that ex-JWs will need to know this information on the 70 years, especially in view of the fact that they have consistently misapplied the fulfillment.

Your post has filled a need

Cheers